Mindfulness and Self-Compassion: A Journey with Podcast Special Guest Julie Potiker
- Savannah Rose Johnson, BA, CLC, RTT.P
- Jul 21
- 28 min read
In this enlightening conversation, Savannah Rose and Julie Potiker explore the transformative power of mindfulness and self-compassion. Julie shares her journey from being a lawyer to a mindfulness teacher and poet, emphasizing the importance of being present without judgment. They discuss the SNAP method for emotional regulation, the impact of social media on self-perception, and the significance of finding agency in a chaotic world. Julie also highlights the need for self-care and the challenges of aging, advocating for a compassionate dialogue around these topics. The conversation concludes with a call to embrace one's power and agency in navigating life's challenges.
For more information about Julie Potiker and her book & resources please visit the link below.
Website: https://mindfulmethodsforlife.com/
Twitter/X: https://x.com/JuliePotiker
Stay Connected with Savannah Rose
Website www.eclipseevolution.com
Podcast Instagram @eclipseevolutionllc
Savannah's Instagram @the_savannahrose
Savannah's YouTube Channel @the_savannahrose
Savannah's TikTok @the_savannahrose
Below is the companion video, timestamps, full transcript, and also available streaming platforms.
Thanks for listening!
Podcast Streaming Platforms:
Companion Video:
Chapters:
00:00 Introduction to Mindfulness and Personal Journey
02:55 Understanding Mindfulness: Definition and Practice
06:01 The Importance of Self-Compassion
08:57 The Role of Social Media in Self-Perception
11:57 Becoming a Mindfulness Teacher
14:50 Introducing the SNAP Method
17:56 Applying SNAP to Everyday Stress
20:55 Managing News Consumption and Mental Health
21:51 Navigating Emotions in a Chaotic World
24:48 Finding Agency and Joy in Daily Life
26:13 Self-Care Essentials for Well-Being
27:41 Cultural Perspectives on Aging
31:46 Practicing Self-Compassion in Aging
35:35 The Power of Truth and Vulnerability
38:47 Self-Esteem vs. Self-Compassion: A Balancing Act
41:24 Empowerment Through Mindfulness and Agency
Transcript:
Savannah Rose (00:01.488)
Hello, hello, welcome to the Eclipse Evolution Podcast. I'm your hostess, Savannah Rose. Thank you so much for joining me wherever you're tuning in from around the world. I'm so grateful that this community has grown the way that it has. And whether you're watching us or listening, we're just happy to have you here. And I'm super excited to introduce my guest today, Miss Julie.
I am so excited. I've been looking forward to this conversation ever since your team reached out to me. And I'm just so grateful that you're willing to share your wisdom, your knowledge, your time with us today. And I know our audience is going to find so many amazing pieces of wisdom in all the information you share with us today. So if you wouldn't mind just introducing yourself and giving us a little overview and then we'll dive in.
Julie Potiker (00:51.694)
Well, first of all, thanks so much for inviting me and I'm really happy to be here. How to introduce myself, I used to be a lawyer, then I was a full-time mom, and then I became a mindfulness person because of parenting issues, really. And now I'm an author and I'm a debut poet. So you never know what's gonna happen. I'm turning 65 years old this year and I became a poet in my 60s.
You just keep learning and keep growing.
Savannah Rose (01:22.021)
I love it.
That's really special. Wow, that's such an amazing to go from being a lawyer, which I know is such a typically like high intensity, like stress career. can kind of see how that would lead you to mindfulness. I'm sure it was the medicine in a lot of ways.
Julie Potiker (01:34.86)
Yes, lot of hours.
Julie Potiker (01:42.902)
It was actually the parenting that led me to mindfulness. So, yeah.
Savannah Rose (01:45.936)
that's right. Yes.
Yes, so I'm curious, when it comes down to your definition of mindfulness, what have you found to be some of your favorite approaches?
Julie Potiker (01:57.932)
So I think about mindfulness as paying attention to what you're doing when you're doing it without judgment. That's all it is. So you could be holding a glass of water and feeling the cold glass in your hand and then looking at the color of it and then taking a sip of it and then.
noticing how it feels in your mouth and then swallowing. That's a mindfulness in daily life activity. do it with my morning coffee every morning, not with the whole mug. I'm not a Buddha, but with the first couple sips, right? And I do it when I'm brushing my teeth. I close my eyes so that I can have the whole sensory experience. I do it when I'm cooking. It's not multitasking or time traveling to the future where you're worrying about what's going to happen or to the
Savannah Rose (02:31.877)
Alright.
Julie Potiker (02:48.912)
past where you're ruminating. You're just right here, right now in the moment. That's mindfulness.
Savannah Rose (02:54.534)
I love that and you said something really interesting too, which I think I would love to learn more about your perspective on this like with the you said without judgment piece I feel like that is huge because that's what I noticed like the ego showing up is when there's like judgment or Comparison happening. I would love your thoughts on that
Julie Potiker (03:15.534)
So this is like a Pandora's box, right? We were driving.
Savannah Rose (03:18.15)
Hahaha
Julie Potiker (03:22.774)
I'm in Idaho right now and I was driving on the main road with my husband an hour ago to make sure that I got home in time to do this interview with you. And I said something to my husband about in general the topic being, you know, aging without judgment or without criticism or whatever. And he just started laughing. He's like, really? Because how are you going to do that, honey? And I said the whole point of it is to be able to
hold all these truths at once, to be able to hold the truth that you look in the mirror and your inner critical voice is judging and harsh, and then to give yourself compassion because it is so hard to feel that way. And then what you do about it is really, it's really up to you. It's your business, but it's the judgment piece around appearance is, especially for women,
It's bananas. And as you age, like the women that are listening to this that are in their 20s and 30s, they're not actually going to believe what I'm saying. But when you're in your 60s and somebody says, open your eyes, because they're taking a picture of you and your eyes are as open as they go.
you think to yourself, self, do I got to do something about this? So it's a lot. It's a really, it's a difficult, it's a difficult process and topic and for which as a mindful self-compassion teacher, I recommend you just pour compassion down on yourself.
Savannah Rose (05:05.35)
Absolutely, I hear you with all of that. What does pouring compassion look like to you? Because I feel like that's something that is one of those like surface level concepts of like, have self-compassion, have self-love, and I feel like it sounds really good, but if we are unfamiliar with that or maybe haven't grown up in a household that practices that or...
maybe that critical voice is the louder one or has been the louder one. I'm curious, how do you learn that self-compassion?
Julie Potiker (05:36.526)
Well, I actually teach the mindful self-compassion course. That's how I got started in teaching in 2014. And one of the pillars of mindful self-compassion is the self-compassion piece, which is treating yourself as you would treat a dear friend. So sometimes people don't have an inner compassionate voice and over the...
course of the weeks of learning how to do mindful self-compassion, you internalize the voice that you would use when you're talking to a dear friend.
That is your compassionate voice. You turn it around and point it at yourself. The other pillars of mindful self-compassion are mindfulness, because you have to know you're suffering in order to be nice to yourself, and common humanity, which is a big, huge, helpful pillar, because if you realize that maybe a billion people are feeling the same vulnerability or sadness or grief or whatever it is at that moment that you're feeling, it'll help you feel
Savannah Rose (06:19.078)
you
Julie Potiker (06:45.04)
isolated and if you're less isolated you're less likely to slide into depression.
Savannah Rose (06:52.678)
I love that I'm writing that down the common humanity piece. I haven't heard that before but it makes so much sense. I think I think that's one of the kind of I don't know Maybe that's the light side said I know there's a ton of shadow side to social media like it can I think add to some of that critical thinking with ourselves because so many things online are airbrushed or edited or there's tons of stuff on there of
Julie Potiker (07:18.786)
filtered.
Savannah Rose (07:20.964)
Like you can have this procedure, you can have that. Like there's so much, so many solutions available that are maybe not really solutions, who knows? But I think one of the light sides of social media is...
what we're seeing more and more is this kind of advocacy for authenticity and that that relatability piece like that connecting to the the common humanity that you mentioned. Because I think when we are suffering and are in that pain or grief it can just by default feel so unique to us and therefore isolating. But I think you make such a good point of like knowing that can be some of our greatest connection points.
Julie Potiker (07:53.346)
Exactly. Exactly.
Julie Potiker (08:00.076)
Yeah, and can I say something about social media here because, you know, social media really does get a bad rap. But on my mindful methods for life, which is my business Facebook, it's just lovely there. And I've curated it so much that on my newsfeed, I just have other poets.
Savannah Rose (08:02.63)
Please.
Savannah Rose (08:12.762)
Yeah. Aww.
Julie Potiker (08:22.346)
and other like personal growth experts and a lot of artists and wildlife photographers. So when I go in there, it's like, you know, maybe I'll decide I'm gonna spend 20 minutes. It's just nice. It's not garbage.
Savannah Rose (08:37.158)
I love you. Right? Yeah. Well, I think he makes such a good point. Like you use the word curated. I think that that's another way that you're practicing that mindfulness by, because I try to do the same thing. If there's something that is not cultivating those, those
Positive thoughts in myself. I start to question like should I even be following this account? Like is this even feeding me what I want? Because I think we are what we eat But we're also we are what we think and we are consuming creatures whether it's food or media. Mm-hmm
Julie Potiker (09:12.206)
100%. 100 % we are what we allow into our heart and mind and gut.
Savannah Rose (09:24.198)
Absolutely. So tell me more about your journey to becoming a teacher because you're a teacher in California and you split your time there. I think that's so cool. How did you start walking on this path in particular of teaching?
Julie Potiker (09:39.694)
Okay, so I'm trying to think of when it was. It was probably around 2008 or something, or maybe 2006. It was a long time ago.
I went to a neurologist because I was afraid I had a brain tumor because my language was being garbled. Like I would think one word like cappuccino and cappuccino would come out or I would think magical and maginal would come out. And he cleared me after doing the brain scans and doing the interviewing of, he cleared me of a brain tumor, thank God, but he did say this is from stress.
And he recommended mindfulness-based stress reduction. That's MBSR. And your viewers can find that course all over the world. It's taught at hospitals all over the world. And it was created in 1979.
by John Capitzin. So it's that old. It's been studied up down in sideways. There's like thousands of studies. He created it for the pain clinic at University of Massachusetts. So in any case, I took that class. I thought it was really interesting, interesting enough that I started taking the neuroscience classes. And then...
Mindful Self-Compassion was created by Chris Germer and Kristin Neff in 2010. And I took that class at UCSD Center for Mindfulness because I was on their email list, because that's where I had taken MBSR. And that class added the component of...
Julie Potiker (11:22.526)
self-compassion explicitly, kind of built on MBSR, but way more self-kindness, self-compassion, the common humanity thing. And I loved it, and I thought it was completely what the doctor ordered basically for me. And then a couple years later, they advertised that they were going to do a teacher training, and I...
put it in application and I got accepted and there were 52 of us in the very first cohort of teachers for mindful self-compassion and that was in 2014. And I was the, so there were 49 therapists.
me a recovering lawyer and a physical therapist. And it was an incredible five days. And right when it was over, you know, then there was mentorship and whatever. I started teaching it right away. And then very quickly I started adapting it because I wanted to synthesize other people's trainings and shuffle the deck so that they would get best practices. So I wanted to put Rick Hansen's work in the front and I wanted to put Brene Brown's work
in the middle and I needed to have some Tara Brack in there and some other teachers that I found, Dan Siegel, that I found really transformative for me. And so that's where Mindful Methods for Life got created.
Savannah Rose (12:50.448)
Wow, that's so cool. That's so comprehensive. I don't know all the authors that you mentioned, but I know a couple of them. And I feel like, gosh, that has to be just such rich curriculum that you're sharing with folks. I'm jealous. That's amazing. That's so cool. So.
Julie Potiker (13:09.11)
I can send you a handbook that I made.
Savannah Rose (13:12.81)
my gosh, I would love that. Thank you. Yeah, that sounds fabulous. I'm so curious too. So your book, did you said that's been out for a few years now, right?
Julie Potiker (13:22.092)
Well, I've written two. the first one, the first one is Life Falls Apart, But You Don't Have To, Mindful Methods for Staying Calm in the Midst of Chaos. And that's more of like a mindfulness memoir. So it's stories and then prescriptive in each chapter. And then during COVID, I created SNAP as a system to regulate our emotions. And so then I wrote a book about SNAP going
back through prior writings and blogs and reworking them to show how SNAP would work for basically every kind of suffering that you're having, you know, so.
That's why I wrote SNAP because I had been teaching Rain, recognize, allow, investigate, not identify or nourish, which happened to not identify in later years because of the self-compassion movement and SNAP's better. So I thought Rain needed an update. It was being taught since the eighties.
Savannah Rose (14:26.373)
Yeah.
Yeah, well it sounds like you're a true innovator where you see the need and you create to fill it. I think that's really special.
Julie Potiker (14:36.792)
Thank you.
Savannah Rose (14:37.894)
So SNAP, that's an acronym in and of itself. What does that stand for?
Julie Potiker (14:43.584)
It stands for Soothing Touch, Name the Emotion, Act, and Praise. And Soothing Touch gives you oxytocin and endorphins.
Savannah Rose (14:49.999)
Hmm.
Julie Potiker (14:57.236)
It's the mammalian caregiver response. So when you put your hands on your body where you find it soothing, and it could be you've got one hand on your belly and one on your heart or both on your belly, or you're cradling your face, or you're hugging your arms, or you just have one hand nestled in the other in your lap, you're going to have like a, from your brain, you're going to get those feel-good hormones because
When an infant cries and it gets picked up, those hormones get released in the infant and in the adult. So we don't need another human to do that. I don't need to say to you, give me a hug. Hang on for 12 seconds. Because we can do that for ourselves. So that's miraculous, right? That's brain science. And then at the end is name the emotion. What I'm doing by name it to tame it is
I'm giving the prefrontal cortex, which is right behind your forehead, enough seconds to come online. Okay, so first we did soothing touch, which is a couple seconds of feeling the warmth of your hands on your body. Then you're naming it and you're thinking about it. is it anger? Is it fear? Is it rage? Is it grief? What it is, you name it. Then it's act.
What do I need to hear right now? And you say it to yourself. And that is the penultimate mindful self-compassion question. Julie, sweetheart, this too shall pass, or you're actually safe right now, nobody's chasing you, or whatever it is that is your problem. You say to yourself what you need to hear. And then part B of ACT is the doozy. It's your toolbox. What do I want to do? This is your power.
Savannah Rose (16:40.42)
Mm.
Julie Potiker (16:44.78)
What do I want to do? What do I choose to do right now to change my channel, to shift my mood? And so at the beginning of every workshop, I have people free associate what brings them joy and they end up with a big list. And it could be anything from calling a friend, walking outside, taking a bath. know, for me, it's Carole King radio. My husband calls it vagina radio and Pandora.
Savannah Rose (17:10.598)
Julie Potiker (17:11.362)
You know, so, so you're in your car, you can't take a bath, but can you put on vagina radio? You know what I mean? So it's going to be very unique to you what that toolbox is. And then when you feel better, P, the P of snap is praise. And the praise is cool because it can be good job, Julie. Thank you, Rick Hansen. Thank you. Whomever is, whoever are your teachers, or it could be, thank God. Thank Jesus. Thank God.
Savannah Rose (17:16.889)
No.
Julie Potiker (17:41.318)
Allah, thank Buddha, like it and it just kind of smooths you like it's like an on ramp into the gratitude practice, which makes all areas of your life better. So snap, soothing touch, name the emotion, act, and praise. And I teach it like that head, shoulders, knees and toes kind of thing, or hokey pokey kind of thing. So that people it's neuro linguistic.
Savannah Rose (18:03.546)
Yeah.
Julie Potiker (18:07.128)
programming so that people remember it, but then once they have it, they don't need to do those hand motions.
Savannah Rose (18:13.126)
Unless that's part of their soothing touch, right? That's fun. I love it. that's so fun. That's such a great, just the flow of it all makes so much sense and it's such a great practice. And I think it just makes a lot of sense to do the comforting piece before we try to apply the logical stuff. Cause I think...
Julie Potiker (18:16.942)
Right.
Julie Potiker (18:34.222)
because you want the brain hormones. want, because what's happening is, so this is the Dan Siegel brain when you use your fist like that. And this is your amygdala, which is the most primitive part of your brain in the back. That's where the fight flight freezes. And you want to get your...
Savannah Rose (18:37.53)
Great.
Julie Potiker (18:59.822)
prefrontal cortex online. So all the beginning of that snap practice is to down regulate the cortisol and adrenaline so that you then can make yourself feel better.
Savannah Rose (19:13.158)
Absolutely. That makes so much sense. think something that stood out to me was when I was doing a little digging on the snap method because I just I really wanted to It's just so intriguing. So I love hearing it from you live right now But it was so interesting to read how you can apply it to everything and something that I think I see right now Just because we're living in such
I always say, when are we not living in chaos? I like to think that no time is really more special than the other, there is maybe just because of more media or whatever it is, there is a big influx right now in, I think, stress, whether it's just in the United States, but also globally, in how you can apply...
this method to the stress that's happening maybe in things that are outside of your control. I'm curious like what your perspective is on that and how you can apply this method to something. Because I know I see my friends and even family who will, and maybe this goes back to the you are but you consume piece, but they'll just stay doom scrolling or they'll just watch the news first thing in the morning and then it just.
It ruins their whole mood for the rest of the day and they live in fear and it's just, it can feel so unmanageable sometimes. I'd love your advice on that.
Julie Potiker (20:31.16)
Well, here's the thing about all that. It'll make you sick.
Savannah Rose (20:34.532)
Yep.
Julie Potiker (20:36.288)
So in order to take care of yourself and in order to protect your immune system, you have to cut that out. No more doom scrolling. Limit your news consumption. You know, I read the news. I don't watch the news. And I really curate what news I'm willing to consume.
Savannah Rose (20:46.894)
Ha ha!
Julie Potiker (21:02.166)
I really like Barry Weiss's The Free Press. I just love how balanced it is. It usually doesn't upset me. You know, so we have a lot of power that we leave on the table when we become victims of what we're allowing to come in. So just don't do that anymore. Just stop it.
Savannah Rose (21:26.534)
Absolutely. I mean, listen. Yeah. You remind me of that SNL skit. I forget who is the actor in it, but it's like the psychologist and they're coming in with their problems. He's like, well, stop. Just stop doing that. But it really is not simple,
Julie Potiker (21:27.566)
What was that?
Julie Potiker (21:45.602)
So here's the thing though, seriously. Let's say you're watching something and you get really upset. You just do snap after you.
For me, it's my heart, right? That's my go-to. You wait until you really feel.
Julie Potiker (22:06.648)
feel the warmth of your hands on your body, then you name the emotion. And it could be, if it's the news, it could be hopelessness, it could be horror, it could be grief, because the news is just horrifying usually. So you name that, you tell yourself what you need to hear. This too shall pass the good and the bad, always passes. You're safe right now.
Maybe you feel guilty that you're safe right now because other people are not safe right now, right? You give yourself love for that. Then what do you want to do? And you might want to be the helper because being the helper feels good. So you might look for boots on the ground organizations that are helping the flood victims in Texas, in the high country, or that are helping
you know, children issues that are tearing you up right now in all kinds of parts of the world or whatever it is. So you can snap that and then the P praise piece is really important. you know, was flipping before what I said, cut that out, but if you can't cut it out, then you can at least be nice to yourself.
and shift your mood so that you don't go out into society with a black cloud around you because you're gonna bring everybody else down. I saw a lecture like maybe last month and the woman was so brilliant and she said, it's really our responsibility to find, hold and have hope. And I was thinking, exactly, because we're mirroring each other's neurons.
So if you go out in society and you're at the bank, well, people don't go to the bank anymore. They're going to teller machines. But you go to the grocery store and you're in front of a cashier and you're just negative. you're just, I mean, she'll feel your energy and it'll bring her down.
Julie Potiker (24:17.942)
Whereas if you're filled with loving kindness, because you've been waiting on line and you've been wishing all the people's heads in front of you, may you be safe, may you be happy, may you be healthy, may you live with ease by the time you get to her, you're kind of buoyant, she appreciates it, and then the person in line after you gets the benefit of that.
Savannah Rose (24:33.38)
you
Savannah Rose (24:39.814)
Absolutely. I think it's so important to remember and to remain mindful of just how connected we really are.
Julie Potiker (24:50.358)
right, and that we have agency. We have power.
Savannah Rose (24:52.792)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. What are other ways that you would suggest people getting in touch with that sense of agency within themselves, if maybe it feels far away or maybe it's a new concept for them?
Julie Potiker (25:08.312)
Well, I think if they write out a joy list and then they choose things to do on it and they see that they feel better.
It's like the proof is in the pudding. And then there's an experience dependent neuroplasticity piece to this, which is when you're taking in a positive mental state and you enrich it and absorb it for a dozen seconds or so, it pushes to a neural trait. So you're making these happy bridges in your brain every time you do it. And then the negative ones get pruned out. So you get, you get a happier brain. So then you become a happier person.
Savannah Rose (25:23.311)
sure.
Savannah Rose (25:40.761)
Mm-hmm.
Savannah Rose (25:45.986)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's so well said and I love just how it really is that simple. I think that sometimes when we overthink things or maybe we just hear messaging around like you have to chase that carrot at the end of the stick. I think it really is just about coming back and remaining in the present, the right here and focusing on that and just so much more can open up from there.
Julie Potiker (26:12.014)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, for sure.
Savannah Rose (26:14.694)
Well, that's amazing. I'm so curious that you mentioned, or I believe actually your team mentioned this when we were chatting about the self-care essentials that you recommend. I'm curious like what some of those are and what you would maybe recommend for other people.
Julie Potiker (26:33.268)
self-care essentials. Well, so my toolbox is going to be different than your toolbox, but I like to spend time in nature. That's a big self-care piece for me. So right now in Idaho, it is just too freaking hot.
Savannah Rose (26:51.332)
Yeah.
Julie Potiker (26:53.266)
If I'm up early enough in the morning, I sit outside with my coffee and I listen to the birds. In San Diego, I do that every morning. That's a big self-care piece for me. Moving my body in some way. For me, I love jogging in the water, aqua jogging or taking a walk. you know, all the things that you do that are on your joy list are going to be your
Savannah Rose (27:12.289)
Julie Potiker (27:23.12)
self-care essentials. I love taking a bath.
Savannah Rose (27:27.398)
That makes sense.
yeah, that's what I'm into for sure. For sure. And just switching a little bit, I'm curious, cause I know one of your specialties is the self dialogue around aging and making that more of a gentle thing with ourselves. I'm curious cause I feel like, is this something in your studies that you've noticed is uniquely or maybe not, but I feel like maybe the negative self talk about aging is perhaps a uniquely American thing. Cause when I see aging and
elders in other countries like Japan for example, they're so revered or even in Native American cultures, the elders are like the top dogs. They're the most respected, the most cherished, the most protected. And I feel like in American culture, we just don't have that same reality unfortunately. I feel like that's something that is close to my heart because I've always, I don't know, maybe it's because I...
had fantastic grandparents, I'm not sure, but I've just always appreciated my elders. So it makes me really sad when I don't see that happening around me, but I'm just curious like whether it's just what we see in culture or even in our dialogue with ourselves around our attitude on aging. What have you noticed with that narrative?
Julie Potiker (28:48.046)
I haven't done any research and I think what you said is common sense and it's spot on. And I know that in America in the last, you know, probably 80 years or so, the families aren't...
Savannah Rose (28:55.513)
Yeah.
Julie Potiker (29:07.028)
staying together. Like the children grow up, they move to another house, they move to another town, sometimes they move to another state. So like the nuclear family where the elders are being taken care of is unusual now. And then the appearance thing, that's a whole other story. And I don't really think that you're going to know how it feels until it's
until it's you because I imagined that I would be completely comfortable just aging gracefully and that I'm a mindfulness teacher. I teach meditation. All of the lines on my face are part of the tapestry of who I am and the life I've lived. And that's all gorgeous and hunky dory. And then I look in the mirror and I go like this. I put I pull up.
What about if I could just pick this up and oh eyes open, eyes open, and my forehead so you know I do these things in the mirror and then I just have to say Julie sweetheart you're you're good you're you're good you know what you have really good content and for a 64 year old woman
You're beautiful. for a 30 year, like, do you look like what you looked like 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years ago? No, you don't. But you can't without doing extraordinary measures. And then you look on social media and you watch television and you see what those extraordinary measures turn out like.
which is why my husband doesn't want me to do it. And I, in my heart, don't want to do it. So it's, but, but I will say that it is a struggle. I'm not going to lie. It's, I'm telling the truth. It's a struggle.
Savannah Rose (31:04.933)
Oh, I'm sure, yeah, absolutely. And I think it's so easy with that comparison piece, not even to other people. I think you make a great point just with other versions of ourselves. That's something that it can just, I think, I don't know if it's just this expectation or something, we don't expect that happening to us. It can happen to other people, but why?
Julie Potiker (31:29.454)
Exactly.
Savannah Rose (31:30.298)
Does it happen to me? No! It's so, it kinda is very humbling, I think, sometimes.
Julie Potiker (31:34.584)
I wrote a poem about it, about aging like that, because when I was young, I used to look at my mom's friends and think that they kind of let themselves go. But actually, now that I'm that age, I could see, no, they didn't. This is just what happens to a body as it ages.
Savannah Rose (31:55.534)
I'm curious, like, when you're having those moments that it feels harder, what would you say are your go-tos, like, for applying self-compassion, like, specifically for that aging aspect? Like, how do you get to that place of...
Julie Potiker (32:10.496)
I just keep telling myself that I love myself. I look in the mirror and I say, Julie, I love you. And you know what? You love so many people and so many people love you back. Like this is actually what it's about. And your kids love you. I mean, that's a big damn deal right there. You didn't screw that up. And it was hard.
Savannah Rose (32:35.078)
Yeah.
Sure, absolutely. That makes a ton of sense. feel like, especially as women, if we choose to have children, that can be such a great motivator. I don't have children of my own yet, but I know I see this kind of transition happening with a lot of my friends who have kids of just their body changing so differently, like seemingly overnight, and kind of having that like...
almost like a grief period of like going from maidenhood to motherhood and their body looks so different and I know I'm not in that place yet so I can't speak on experience but I'm so quick to remind them I'm like your body literally created a little person I'm like that is crazy like what and then yeah
Julie Potiker (33:21.13)
I I know. And it's kind of like a freak show what happens. I used to have this fantasy that I could just make the baby in my drawer where all the soft things are like the camisoles and the panties and I could go in there and feed it and it wouldn't have to be.
Savannah Rose (33:33.062)
you
you
Julie Potiker (33:46.7)
blowing up my insides, know, like busting out my hips and my rib cage and they'll never go back to the way they were before. Now, I will admit that I have a singleton, son, and then I have identical twin girls. So carrying twins is a whole nother freak show of a story. And I was on bed rest from week 18.
Savannah Rose (33:48.431)
Right.
Savannah Rose (34:05.558)
wow.
Savannah Rose (34:09.701)
Yeah.
Julie Potiker (34:16.268)
when I went into preterm labor because of the amniocentesis until they were delivered at two days shy of week 36. And week 36 is like the target for twins. So I was down, down for those 18 weeks with a toddler who wanted to play toys.
Savannah Rose (34:38.31)
Wow, that's wild. I'll have to definitely make sure my best friend hears this episode because she has a similar journey. She had her son who was a singleton and then she had their twins and she, I didn't know her at that time, but she showed me videos of her when she was like on her due date with her twins and she looks so different and she was like, I can't believe I did that. Right?
Julie Potiker (35:00.534)
Right, well you look like a brick house. Like literally I looked like a piece of furniture from behind. From the front it was ridiculous, but even from behind I looked like there was like a dresser or like an amoir. You know, mean just craziness.
Savannah Rose (35:05.879)
Yeah.
Savannah Rose (35:15.824)
any.
Yeah, yeah, she was, she was like, she even says she's like, I was massive, Like, that's wild. But her babies are beautiful and healthy. And that's something what a gift that our bodies Yeah.
Julie Potiker (35:28.684)
That's what it's about. And my daughters are 30 years old.
Savannah Rose (35:35.588)
That's so special. Yeah, it's just like, think women, don't, I think the narrative is starting to change in the community or in our culture some, but I feel like there hasn't been historically enough credit given to women and like what we are truly capable of, not just like the emotional labor that we're able to do and provide, but the like physically like creating this little person in our body. It's wild and how we don't have any say. like, I'll give you.
80 % of the food, rest I'm keeping for me like that. Fetus is gonna take what it wants at the cost of us.
Julie Potiker (36:11.008)
I maybe your generation will change the paradigm and the conversation because you already are. Like we didn't even talk about it.
Savannah Rose (36:23.61)
Yeah, I think the conversation is so important because like you said, it is a big paradigm shift and I think what we're seeing a lot right now in this culture is a huge need for women's voices and that advocacy and that sisterhood and I think that really does start with the self-compassion piece that you teach.
Julie Potiker (36:44.054)
And telling the truth, like telling the truth, like when your kids are in preschool and in grade school and in middle school and in high school and whether they go to college or they don't go to college, like moms should be able to tell the truth to other moms and not have to make up stuff to like keep up.
Savannah Rose (37:06.486)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's so true. So as, whether it's with your journey or what you've seen around you, what kind of, in place of the truth, what do you notice?
Julie Potiker (37:19.683)
people just lie.
Julie Potiker (37:25.238)
or they just omit, you know? So I just tell the truth. And when I tell the truth, it makes other people feel more comfortable being vulnerable and telling their truth. So I just think it's a way better way to operate on the planet. And it's much more peaceful.
Savannah Rose (37:49.414)
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, going back to that, the common humanity piece, I mean, I want to say it's Ram Dass. I hope that's right where it's we're all just walking each other home. Yes. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And I think that's so important. I think that's something that, again, the paradigm shift I'm seeing right now and trying to cultivate myself is just not that we have to put
Julie Potiker (38:01.068)
Welcome to the other home.
That's around us.
Savannah Rose (38:19.478)
all our dirty laundry out there because we do deserve privacy but I think not, I think the days of like trying to have this quote perfect life it's it's revealing to be just so meaningless and so empty and for what like why I think more and more people are starting to ask why am I doing this or who am I doing this for why am I giving my power away to this
Perceived authority and so just kind of going back to what you were talking about with the creating that inner authority piece I think that's so important
Julie Potiker (38:53.87)
Well, you said something just now that sparked something in me. So there's a difference between self-esteem and self-compassion. And sometimes the self-esteem thing is problematic because it is in comparison to others where a lot of people get their self-esteem. Whereas self-compassion, you're just being nice to yourself because it's hard or
Savannah Rose (39:03.93)
Mmm.
Julie Potiker (39:23.534)
because it's not hard, you're just being nice to yourself. I mean, it's much more nourishing.
Savannah Rose (39:33.124)
Absolutely. So how would you describe, or maybe what would your definition of self-esteem be and how can it be used in your benefit?
Julie Potiker (39:46.304)
I probably shouldn't have brought this up because I don't have a really gelled answer for self-esteem. I just know that from a very young age, kids get self-esteem when they get a better grade or they win at that.
you know, relay race, or they get a trophy or whatever it is and they have the right shoes or the right backpack or whatever it is. And it, it, it's kind of insidious where they feel good about themselves because they have whatever that thing is. And then as they grow up,
that gets internalized and then, and that's their self-esteem. And that's really dangerous because life is full of pitfalls and failures. And it's when you have self-compassion and you have a failure that you can be kind to yourself and you're more likely to try again and to build resilience and to be successful. Like self-esteem is kind of brittle.
Savannah Rose (40:55.606)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, Nikki. go ahead. What was that?
Julie Potiker (40:56.654)
Does that make sense? Did that make sense, that answer?
Savannah Rose (41:00.536)
It did, it did, absolutely. it kind of, what it sparks in me is it sounds like self-esteem and self-compassion. It's almost like the yin and yang. If you kind of need both, like the self-esteem maybe is like the do, like maybe like the pride we feel from doing, but if we're only getting our sense of pride from doing, that's the road to burnout. I know that all too well. So if we learn how to just have that self-worth.
from just being and are able to float in that yin and kind of bounce between the two, I think that that leads to a nice balance and not one or the other is dominating.
Julie Potiker (41:39.276)
I think that's great description.
Savannah Rose (41:44.198)
Thank you. Yeah. Yay. I appreciate it. I've loved exploring these concepts with you. just, they're concepts that are so close to my heart and again, just so in tune with my audience and what I like to share personally on and hear from others. I'm so curious if you have anything that I didn't touch upon already that you would like to share with our audience today.
Julie Potiker (42:10.75)
Only not to... Okay, to remember that you have power. I just want people to leave this conversation knowing that they have agency and power over their mood. Regardless of what chaos is going on, they can find a...
a moment or two moments or a half hour or an hour of calm in the chaos just by using their power, using their toolbox, going to their joy list, doing one thing after the other until they feel better.
Savannah Rose (42:49.318)
Absolutely, yeah. Well said. Well said, Julie. I really appreciate it. And so if others would like to learn more about you, to learn where they can find your books, how can folks get in touch with you?
Julie Potiker (43:02.626)
My website's a library, mindfullmethodsforlife.com and just take some time noodling around in there. The reading and resource section is really robust. It's got all my teacher's books and actually books from...
Books from authors that I don't even know personally, but helped me immeasurably, I'll put on there also. And it's got other people's websites, and it has my media tab, which has hundreds of interviews, and
Balanced Mind with Julie Potokor is a podcast. It's free and it's just guided meditations. That's all it is with a poem at the end. And I recommend everybody just try it, even if they've never meditated. Just try it. It can't hurt to try it. And it really help.
Savannah Rose (43:54.726)
Yeah, I can't wait to try that you said there's a poem at the end of each meditation. my gosh. Yeah, I'm sold that sounds right up my alley I love that and I'll put the links to everything in the description as well So y'all can track her down very easily, but Julie. Thank you so much This was such an amazing conversation just gave me so many things to noodle on myself, and I really appreciate your time today
Julie Potiker (44:00.844)
Each one. Yep.
Julie Potiker (44:21.976)
Thanks so much Savannah, it was great speaking with you.
Savannah Rose (44:24.646)
My pleasure and thank you to everyone who tuned in today. This is Eclipse Evolution. Again, I'm Savannah Rose and this was our amazing guest Julie today. Thank you so much again. Thank you all and I will talk to you later. Bye for now.
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