Exploring Psychedelic Therapy with Podcast Special Guest Julian Bermudez
- Savannah Rose Johnson, BA, CLC, RTT.P
- Jun 24
- 35 min read
In this episode of the Eclipse Evolution podcast, Savannah Rose engages in a profound conversation with Julian, a psychedelic therapist, about the transformative power of psychedelic therapy in healing trauma. Julian shares his personal journey of overcoming pain and suffering, emphasizing the importance of agency and self-acceptance in the healing process. The discussion delves into the significance of set and setting in psychedelic experiences, the role of facilitators, and the necessity of integration post-experience. Julian also highlights the dynamic of his practice with his wife Claire, the impact of animals in therapeutic settings, and the importance of taking accountability for one's emotions. The conversation concludes with reflections on embodiment and the ongoing journey of self-discovery and healing.
For more information about Julian, the Psychedelic Integration Trauma Therapy practice, join their mailing list, and stay further connected, please see the following links.
Instagram: @psycheintegration
Stay Connected with Savannah Rose
Podcast Instagram @eclipseevolutionllc
Savannah's Instagram @the_savannahrose
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Savannah's TikTok @the_savannahrose
Below is the companion video, timestamps, full transcript, and also available streaming platforms.
Thanks for listening!
Podcast Streaming Platforms:
Companion Video:
Chapters:
00:00 Introduction to Psychedelic Therapy
01:45 Julian's Journey and Transformation
04:55 Understanding Trauma and Its Impact
07:50 The Role of the Facilitator
10:35 Navigating the Dark Side of Psychedelic Therapy
12:08 Set and Setting in Psychedelic Experiences
16:15 The Sacred Nature of Psychedelic Experiences
18:01 Building a Practice with Claire
22:16 The Role of Animals in Healing
23:03 The Healing Power of Animals
28:13 Transformative Relationships with Pets
34:33 Taking Accountability for Our Emotions
42:24 The Importance of Embodiment
Transcript:
Savannah Rose (00:02.286)
Hello, hello. Welcome everybody. Thank you so much for joining me. Welcome to the Eclipse Evolution podcast. I'm your hostess, Savannah Rose, and I have a sidekick, Miguel, today. But what I'm most excited about today is my generous guest, Julian. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so glad you reached out. And I think y'all are gonna find our conversation today very intriguing, very of the times, and hopefully you can get some nice healing nuggets of wisdom as well.
So Julian, thank you so much for being here and please introduce yourself. I can't wait to get started.
Julian (00:51.389)
Hi Savannah, thanks for having me. Yeah, my name is Julian. I do psychedelic therapy and mainly I help people transform suffering and pain into agency, choice, responsibility, and ultimately to cultivate the capacity to liberate ourselves from those old patterns that constrict us.
Savannah Rose (01:10.51)
Mm.
Well said, well said. I think that that is such a great way to kick us off. think the transmutation process is something that is so important in understanding the purpose of whether you're going into a psychedelic experience like for healing trauma or something maybe more present at the time. I think it's not about just like a silver bullet. Maybe what big pharma teaches us, take this and it'll go away, but rather
It's like, can you do to transform it? I think that's really powerful.
Julian (01:45.789)
Yeah, you're absolutely right. That's one of the biggest misconceptions. I used to hold it and just about every single person that I work with on some level or another has that belief that this is the magic pill. It's the thing that's going to change everything. And unfortunately, that's just not how it works.
Savannah Rose (02:04.01)
Absolutely. So I'm curious, your origin story, how did you yourself begin to shift that belief process?
Julian (02:12.349)
Yeah, well, I grew up in Detroit, Michigan, and I had very young parents who didn't want me and didn't like each other. So needless to say, I had a very stressful, challenging, survival-based childhood. And this created just so much pain inside of me. And when I was in my early 20s, I was really trying to figure out how I could transform this pain because I couldn't keep living that way. It was was that simple.
My life just was not going to continue much longer. So I went to university, started studying clinical psychology, addiction psychology, wasn't really finding the answers I was looking for, started looking for some answers on my own through my independent study, which is what I had always done before I went to school, and found some incredible teachers that were in this field. They were talking about addictions and healing trauma, and they were using psychedelic therapy as a means for that.
So I reviewed the literature and studied it for about seven or eight years before I had my first psychedelic facilitated experience. And for those seven or eight years, I was just trying to learn how to work with my internal state, my internal world. And it was very difficult and very challenging because when you only know one way of looking at something or one way of seeing something, it's very difficult to even imagine what's outside of it.
But as things started to click for me, as I was starting to make transformations and I was starting to change my relationship with myself and with my pain, that's when people started coming to see me to do the exact same thing. So it's been a process of about 15 years now, and it's a continuous one. I continuously identify and recognize new areas of pains or constrictions or beliefs that are inside of me or ways that those familiar old pains continue to show up in different ways.
And it's a constant practice of recognizing it, identifying it, relating with it, accepting that it's here, and trying to figure out how I can comfort and soothe that pain in healthy, constructive ways.
Savannah Rose (04:19.758)
Well said it makes me so happy to hear your journey and I think the thing that has me really excited right now is just hearing your I would say radical acceptance of your journey and how it's Not again just like a one-and-done thing it's something that we continue to weave and change the structure of and and as we go through Different things in life or maybe have you like you said those familiar painful moments show up we
It's something that we stay and flow with. And I think that that's really powerful and something that maybe not a lot of people understand or even like give themselves the grace to go through. think again, and we have this black and white thinking sometimes of I do this, so it's over. it's like, I think that's kind of unkind to ourselves. Like when those things do show up again, because they will, it's like, how do you continue to hold that space for yourself?
Julian (05:18.653)
Yeah, you're identifying some more ways that we become constricted and limited. Our range of motion or flexibility is greatly reduced and therefore our ability to engage with life, to participate with it, become our best versions of ourselves is greatly limited based off of those limiting beliefs and perceptions.
Savannah Rose (05:37.518)
Absolutely. What have you found to be some of those other restrictive structures that you have witnessed, like whether with yourself or with your clients, like some of the more popular things that you noticed?
Julian (05:51.493)
Yeah. Trauma. It's the first and foremost, the biggest thing whenever I'm working with somebody, that is the thing that I'm focusing on. See, when we're talking about psychedelic therapy, it's not just about having one psychedelic experience. It's a way of reconnecting with ourselves. So the word psychedelic itself, psychedelic.
Psyche referring to all the immaterial aspects of who we are as human beings So it's crudely referred to as the mind but it's much bigger than that. It's all of our thinking patterns It's all of our perceptions. It's all of our emotions our emotional patterns It's a little bit more eloquently referred to as the soul So it's all of this essence of who we are. In other words, we're talking about the human spirit here and then you have Dalek which is
manifesting, arising, emerging. So we have a deep connection to oneself where the dynamics of the human spirit can emerge. And so when I work with people, I try to facilitate that experience right away. And we can get there through so many different means and reflection in query is a useful tool here. So I try to figure out what are the things that are stopping people from thriving? are the things that are stopping people from connecting with?
and participating in the human experience, the human spirit. And what I find is trauma, first and foremost, is the biggest barrier. It is not about what happened to us, it's about how we responded to what happened to us. And the biggest way that we respond to trauma is we disconnect from ourselves. So we learn to suppress our emotions, we learn to sacrifice our boundaries.
We put other people's needs before our own. We sacrifice our expression, so on and so forth. So identifying trauma, figuring out how that pain from the past continues to show up here in the present is first and foremost for us.
Savannah Rose (07:54.936)
Mm-hmm, well said. I love it and I can feel in your discussion about things just this, I would say very rooted.
knowing and also just like this, I feel like you speak from that soul place as well. think that that's just translating so well and I can feel it and I think that's really special. And I think that's something like as a facilitator when you can bring your own humanness to the equation, it makes you such a better shepherd but also I mean that's really why people have facilitators to begin with is like for that.
connection, that protection, that guidance. I think that's really powerful.
Julian (08:38.096)
Yeah, thank you. I operate from the belief that the wisdom, the knowledge, all of the ability to heal and thrive is inside of all of us. And that's what I'm talking about when I say the human spirit. Frederick Nietzsche famously said that there's more wisdom in our bodies than in our deepest philosophies. So this ability to tap into that wisdom is what I help people do. And the answers are inside of each and every one of us.
So as a facilitator, I've got to be able to do it myself. And that kind of sets just a little bit of a trail that people can follow. And of course, I go and walk through that trail and kind of show them this is the way here to get back to themselves. But all the answers, all the wisdom, all the knowledge is inside of everybody that I work with.
Savannah Rose (09:26.626)
all said. Absolutely. And I think that's super respectful as well, like when you are walking the walk, not just talking the talk. I think in this kind of new paradigm that we're moving into where we have so many alternative modalities of healing and all these different people who are acting as those guys, when you see the person
walking the walk to me, it's not only impressive, but it's trustworthy, worthy of that trust of like, no, you feel this way or maybe this is your experience. I understand you sister, I've been here. I think that's really powerful and something that is just comforting and beyond words too.
Julian (10:10.403)
Thank you. I think it's really important because we have so much commercialization, industrialization, creating these trades of psychedelic therapy. I have to sneeze. excuse me. They were just cutting the grass next door, so it's all in the air now and I'm gonna probably sneeze multiple times. But it's right there and it just won't come out, which is okay. Yeah, so I think it's so important for us to be deeply in tune with the practice. It's not just about
Savannah Rose (10:19.512)
Mm-hmm.
Savannah Rose (10:28.234)
Okay. Yeah.
Julian (10:39.117)
reading things in a book and then regurgitating it and telling people this is how it works. Everything that I help people with are tried and tested and they're things that I apply to myself and I think that that gives me a tremendous foundation to work with people and the fact that I came from such deep suffering, life-threatening suffering and survival just allows me to deeply connect with people's experiences and that really allows them to say, okay, this is somebody who really understands me and
knows what I'm going through. And this is just such a wonderful foundation for a therapeutic experience.
Savannah Rose (11:14.19)
Mm-hmm, absolutely. Yeah, and I feel like it's such a great advocate for the psychedelic therapy world as well when you are this leader and this model. Like, hey, this really works. This isn't something that... So I think like whether it's because of propaganda or maybe people not having the right set and setting, like there is sometimes just like that chatter of what...
I guess like the dark side of this world. But when you have someone who is working in that ethical model and walking the walk and also just like living proof of like, this is something that can be massively healing and massively transforming. I think that that's such a great representation of the...
the light side and the light work that this contains, but also just how so many of these different medicines are, they're really here to help us if we let them.
Julian (12:11.725)
Yeah. And you're pointing out some very important at the same time, which is there is a flip side to this. It can be used for sinister ways. It can be manipulative. It can be fostered and used by people who have bypassed all of their own work. And then they get into positions of power and then you see all of these patterns of abuse playing out. So yeah, these are, these are
very real concerns in these environments as is with all dynamics in this world. There is maliciousness. There are sinister intentions that are in this world and it's not that we want to get rid of them. It's not that we want to protect ourselves from them. It's that we want to learn how to navigate them, how to recognize, identify when we're interacting with them and then navigate it in the ways that are true to who we are as individuals.
Savannah Rose (13:03.598)
Absolutely. Yeah, I think that that's that kind of acceptance of the shadow can be something that allows us to empower the light even more and I know when it comes down to my own practice and working with clients and even just in my own journeys the set and setting aspect being so vital to calling in that light and being intentional with what you want that experience to
perhaps facilitate or, I guess just like, cause you can't always control what shows up, but I think just calling in the intentions of this being something that is, it is sacred work. mean, any soul work is sacred work. And I'm curious, like what, when it comes down to your practice and how you operate or even in your own journey, the role of set and setting, like that environment and those intentions, like I'm just curious your thoughts on that.
Julian (14:01.131)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I heard this participant from DMT, the spirit molecule, which was Rick Strassman's DMT studies. He was saying set and setting is everything. It's the most important aspect of this experience. And when you have blindfolds, or eyeshades and headphones on, what's the set and setting? It's certainly not the room that you're in. It's certainly not the people who are around you. It's your internal state.
It's the relationship that you have with yourself. It's your ability to recognize and identify when something's coming up and to relate with it and engage and participate with it. That's the set and setting. So those are the things that I focus on very early on with people. When we're working, when we're having a psychedelic experience, there are very common characteristics of the experience.
The first one is that things come to our awareness. Of course, if it's about the human spirit emerging, this is things that we might be unaware of that are going to come to our awareness. And very frequently, especially I think in our day and age, the things that are going to come to our awareness are the things that constrict us and limit us. In other words, painful things, things that we might have spent our entire lifetime trying to avoid or trying to get rid of.
And so if we're not ready, if we're not prepared to engage with those, they come up and they're these big, scary, overwhelming monsters. And then we spend four or five hours running away from them or trying to get away from it. And that is what we would call a stressful, bad trip. So what I want to do with people to start to set up their foundation to have this experience is if things that cause us pain that are inside of us are going to come to our awareness, let's take that inventory right away.
Let's get right to it long beforehand. If we can start to identify all of those things, if we can become familiar with what's inside of us, the pain that we carry around, and we can start to build a relationship with it where we accept that it's here, we get very curious about it. How often do I see it? How often does it show up in my life? Where is it at in my body? How often do I feel this? What does it feel like? When can I first remember feeling this?
Julian (16:18.793)
what circumstances were happening when I first started feeling this, what were the unmet needs that I had when I first started feeling this, and how did I adapt this feeling? Did I embrace it? Did I sit with it? Did I comfort it? Did I soothe it? Or did I distract from it? Did I suppress it or depress it? Did I try to exile it? Do I fight it? Do I struggle with it? Do I judge and criticize it? These are things that we want to see right away. And then we want to build a practice.
where we can start to intentionally go into that space, relate with that pain, and try to comfort and soothe it by meeting those unmet needs in healthy, constructive ways. If we do that, if we can have that foundation underneath us, then, I mean, by definition one, we're already having a psychedelic experience. But when you go deeper into the psychedelic experience, now we've gotten so many of these barriers already accounted for, and then we can hop over them much easier or...
open the doors, so to speak, as we need to, to go deeper into the experience.
Savannah Rose (17:19.274)
Mm-hmm. Wow. Beautiful. I wish I could just get a spoon and just eat up what you're saying, because it's so true. it's just, I think it's just beautifully said. I'm, as a practitioner in this space, like, I mean, I am just really grateful that you're in this space as well, because I think I see a lot of folks and have trained with people who, I would say, are still...
Julian (17:27.635)
Hahaha
Savannah Rose (17:48.236)
because of whatever reason, whether their own journey or restrictions or whatever it is, still I feel like at the surface and I can tell your deep respect for this practice. It's just very moving to listen to. So thank you for being in this space and doing what you do. And I think you make a great point of how this beginning work or just even the psychedelic work itself is not exclusive to ingesting a substance. I've had psychedelic experience
in just meditation or in breath work and I think it really is just like that journey inwards is what the truly psychedelic aspect is. I think that you made such a good point with that.
Julian (18:32.663)
Thank you. Yeah, all throughout human history, psychedelic experiences have been held in very high respects and very high regards. And there has been a sacred, we could say, place in society for these experiences. You can get to it through substances. You can have ceremony with ayahuasca, with peyote, with mushrooms, so on and so forth. But you can also get there through meditation. You can get there through reflection. You can get there through sensory deprivation. So you can climb into a claustrophobic cave.
and have all of your senses removed and then you have this incredible psychedelic experience and you produce some of the most profound artwork that we've seen in human history. You can go into nature, you can go into isolation on the mountain for 40 days and 40 nights and then hear the voice of God. You can do a sun dance where you push yourself to the brink of exhaustion, dehydration. All of these are incredible ways to have this exact experience. It's inside of every one of us and it is an innate
and fundamental part of being a human being.
Savannah Rose (19:35.018)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well said. I love it. That's so fabulous. I'm so curious. How did you, because you operate with your wife. Y'all's practice up, it's in Portland, right, Oregon? Okay, just what I thought. Y'all have had your practice for a few years now, right? Okay.
Julian (19:55.702)
Yeah, we opened this one officially in 2022 with all of the changing atmosphere that was happening here. That was when we officially opened this practice. So that was, yeah, that was a big, pivitable time in Oregon over here.
Savannah Rose (20:01.058)
Thank you.
Savannah Rose (20:13.612)
Yes, I love it. I'm so excited for you. And so tell me about your journey and how y'all came together as practitioners and decided to continue to be leaders in this movement and providers in your community.
Julian (20:28.789)
So you want to know how Claire and I got started together?
Savannah Rose (20:32.883)
yes.
Julian (20:35.126)
We met back in 2018, Claire and myself, and we were both working on a hospital unit together. So it was a trauma unit, coincidentally. And we spent, mean, it was just a purely professional relationship. And yeah, we worked there for about a year together. And then I left the unit and she went and did other things as well. And we stayed in contact. And over the years, we cultivated a friendship and then
we started, we moved into a partnership together. And I think maybe a year or so into that relationship is when I started focusing exclusively on doing this work with people. yeah, it was really profound for her own experience as well. You know, when we first started dating, she was very opposed to all of these experiences. I mean, just the idea of consuming cannabis for her was...
You know, I know I don't she had she had a very difficult relationship with addictions growing up with her family and things like that. So the idea of any consuming any substance whatsoever was far off the table. But she gradually opened up more when we were building our friendship and really started understanding what we were doing here. And she started having her own experiences. And then she said, well, I really want to get involved with this, too. And she stopped. She stopped her job in the hospital and.
committed full time to her own practice and that really enabled her to continue and help me out, which made this really interesting dynamic because I understand this process myself and I can help people through it, but there are so many things about connecting with people that I don't understand, like fundamental comforts. How can you make somebody feel comfortable coming into an environment?
I don't know that. I've been living on my own since I was 13 years old and I was focused exclusively on survival. I have no idea of how to make a room feel comfortable or how to make somebody feel welcome. I don't know how to prepare food and give it to somebody or prepare basic things like that for other people. Well, Claire really understands all of that. So we ended up making this like interesting dynamic where
Julian (22:52.135)
Yeah, I can really help people go deep and I can cultivate a sense of safety in terms of working with somebody. But for, let's say, a woman who's traveling across the country, I have a various group of Blue Jays who have their babies here. They just had them a few, like six weeks ago, and they're knocking on the door right now telling me that their bird feeder is empty and they would like me to take care of them. So that's what distracted me. And if you saw the light go over there.
Savannah Rose (23:15.832)
Cute.
Julian (23:21.606)
Anyway, so if somebody's traveling across the country to work with us, like say a woman who's working through sexual trauma and she comes here and then she sees me being a male, whoever she's working with regardless, she's going to be defensive and scared and nervous. So when it's me and then Claire's here and she has this ability to really cultivate a welcoming space. And then you add in our third person who's sleeping behind me, Layla. And the three of us together just are able to make this incredible
Savannah Rose (23:44.917)
Yeah.
Julian (23:50.866)
container for people to come and work in the space with, which I wouldn't be able to do if it was just me. I could help people go through these things, but all of those other dynamics in the environment are beyond me. So we all complement each other in lots of ways.
Savannah Rose (24:06.446)
Sounds like it, that's beautiful. What a special journey and it sounds like it was just so aligned and that y'all really balance each other out. I think that's really special. And so what's Claire's role? I know it sounds like she's in charge of creature comforts, but also, is she, I believe when I was looking y'all up, she's an RN, is that right? So is she more on the medical side? Okay.
Julian (24:31.015)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So she still works part time in the hospital. She does pediatric nursing and she helps us out a lot with like screening, medical history, all of those types of things. And of course, she she plays important roles too, in terms of working with people. So, yeah, if somebody's having a psychedelic experience, she's a fantastic presence to have here.
Savannah Rose (24:55.662)
I bet and tell me about Layla like how is she I mean because I have as you can hear in the background my parakeets they always it's like they know what I'm filming a podcast they get so chatty and you've seen my cat now so I understand the comforts of animals but I'm just curious what you've noticed and having Layla as a part of your practice how do people take to her and how does she respond to you?
Julian (25:23.046)
You know, Layla is 15 and a half years old now. So she's been through this since the beginning with me. She, for me, has been probably, I can say this without much doubt, the biggest teacher on my path. So in terms of learning how to heal and learning how to be gentle, learning how to be humorous, learning how to find joy in life, you know, those are all things that I had no idea of what they even meant growing up in a
Savannah Rose (25:26.497)
Julian (25:51.987)
purely survival based environment. know, play is so important for us humans. It's built into who we are. It's essential. We have a play emotional circuit and this helps us develop and attune into our environment. And when we're in survival, the play just completely gets sacrificed. You know, as a child, I didn't
Savannah Rose (26:15.799)
Mm-hmm.
Julian (26:18.579)
play at all. was more focused on where am I going to sleep tonight and what am I going to eat and how am I going to avoid the big gorilla in the room who's going who's beating everybody up. So later in my life when Layla came in she really started teaching me how to find these subtle enjoyments in life of playing and just enjoying being here which was something I didn't know. And so she was really helping me out. So I got her certified and
in therapy work and in service work as well. So when I started working at the university and in the hospital system, I was taking her with me. And she had her own job, she had her own badge, she took it very seriously, and these were all things that she wanted. She made that very clear. So we would go through the hospitals and she would pick who she wanted to go and interact with when she was doing her shifts. And we would have like a huge laundry list of people who would request.
us to come and see them because she was just that popular in the system. But she chooses who she's going to go and see. And, you know, when you go, when you're coming up to like a room or an area where people are and you can just feel the what's happening inside of there, you can feel the tension, you can feel the fear, the anger. A lot of the times we go up to these rooms and she'd say this one and I look at her and go, are you serious? Are you sure about that one? This one over here seems like it'd be a lot easier for us. And she's like, no, this one.
Savannah Rose (27:20.418)
Bye!
Julian (27:47.341)
And so we'd go in and yeah, people would be having, you know, somewhere along the worst day of their lives. And they'd be navigating loss and death and life changing injuries and illnesses and so on. And she would come into that environment and within minutes, which is transform it. People would be, you know, so angry or crying and devastated and in despair. And within minutes, they're laughing, they're joking, they're smiling.
a few minutes into it, they might even be sleeping. That's one of her hidden skills is she can put people to sleep like that. So she took this job very seriously. And so when we retired from the hospital and we moved into this practice full time, again, she took this very seriously. So she she's just this incredible presence. know, again, if somebody is coming from across the country, regardless of what they're working through.
and they're nervous and skeptical and they come in here, who are these weird people? You know, we've talked on the phone for weeks leading up to this, but coming in person is totally different. And then, you know, we're diving into some of the most painful aspects of their lives. So there's a tension there and Layla just knows how to cut right through that. So she'll be laying on the floor and just let out these really loud snores at like the most opportune tense moment. And it just transforms everything so easily. So
Her presence here is unmistakably one of the most powerful ones. I'm probably second or third to her in that sense because I mean everybody, everybody that comes through remarks on how powerful she is. She's incredible.
Savannah Rose (29:27.908)
my gosh, that just moves me to my core. love that because you're so right animals. mean, I've always said that they're just they teach us how to love they teach us how to just be like you were saying and I'm just so grateful to hear that she's in her space where it sounds like that's what she was meant to do.
Julian (29:46.689)
Yeah, she really enjoys it. mean, she doesn't come out here too much when I'm doing these calls, but today, yeah, she's right behind me there and she's just she's holding it down.
Savannah Rose (29:53.07)
Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, same with my little guy. Like I have to shut the door or I'd be flooded with all my babies. Yeah, and I've been out of town too, so they're like extra like, Mom, we want a baby. It's really sweet.
Julian (30:02.948)
Yeah.
Julian (30:09.093)
Yeah, uh-huh. They hear you talking, they know you're doing the podcast and they say, hey, we're gonna come in, we're gonna show you what we do here too. It's pretty funny. seeing the tail come through is pretty funny. It just lightens everything up.
Savannah Rose (30:15.778)
Yeah, exactly.
Savannah Rose (30:22.146)
yeah, yeah for sure and I love it. I know, I know that's why when we were in the green room I was like I'm very casual because that's I know in all respect to other podcasts that are like super sophisticated and have like all the best tech but for me it's I what I love most about having guests on my podcast because I didn't always do that. It's just I love to just connect with people and I'm a person and you're a person and when it comes down to our spaces and
what we have in our spaces, I like that to be organic. Like this is me and part of me is having all these little critters with me. So, for sure. That's so special though. I love that Layla has had that experience and that she has been such, I say angel, not in like necessarily like the religious context, but just what I believe angels to be are just like these other worldly,
beings of light and love and it just sounds like she's really ascended upon everyone when it comes down to her presence and that energy and it really is such a testament to how animals can heal and transform and just by being there they don't have to do anything crazy it's just being themselves.
Julian (31:38.672)
Yeah, a guide. Yeah, when she came into my life within months of having her, she started teaching me right away. Hey, you don't have to live this way anymore. We can do something totally different. And she was very vocal and persistent about it. And I got to say, I want to attribute all of the early transformations in my life to her. But I would say the vast majority of them, she was the one who sparked it all.
Savannah Rose (32:01.838)
Oh yeah, absolutely. it's, it's, I mean, I'm a firm believer in just divine timing with animals in our lives, especially like I know my, have a, he's not in here right now, but I have a one-eyed cat who I rescued when he was just weeks old and he came in my life at the...
best possible time. was going through like a massive awful breakup, very, very traumatic and was just struggling to take care of myself. And then I had this tiny little sick, injured fluff who needed so much care, but it was so cathartic because it put me in a routine because I had to get up to give him his medicine and give him his cream. And I had to say no to and like set boundaries with people who were not.
good in my life at that time because I only had so much energy and I needed it to go to myself and this kitten. And now he just adds so much joy and humor and harmony into the household, but he's, gosh, like you said, just such a teacher on like, hey, this is what I need. Like I need this attention and care. You deserve that same attention and care. It's really special.
Julian (33:11.16)
funny how that works. When we go through trauma as children and we learn to suppress our emotions, suppress our expression, and of course to suppress our boundaries, we do so because we have to do that. We learn that if we don't suppress our emotions or our boundaries, things can get more dangerous. We can lose our attachments much easier and therefore we would suffer even greater. So these are survival adaptations.
And so later in life, setting boundaries can feel very threatening. And we might not even have the slightest idea of how to do it. But then comes along a cat or a dog and they say, hey, you know, I need this care or whatever. And you need to get rid of all of those people who are sucking you dry over there, whom you're sacrificing yourself to please these people and you don't even like them or want their connection.
And I mean, for me, just like you were saying, that was a wonderful opportunity to learn like, yeah, I can prioritize myself. I can prioritize you and myself because whenever she wants to do something, chances are it's really good for me too. So it was this wonderful ability to teach me how to care for myself, which I had no idea of. I mean, I survived on my own, so I obviously had some idea of how to care for myself, but how to really take care of myself rather than just survive.
She taught me a lot of it.
Savannah Rose (34:36.43)
That's so special. yeah, I think it's so potent what you're saying when it comes down to the not even knowing how to set boundaries. Because I think for myself, like my journey with boundaries has been something that was more...
Mental than it was like I had a very like deep mental understanding of boundaries like what are good boundaries? What are whatever and I was teaching them to people? But it when it came down to actually enforcing the boundaries is where I struggled for a long time because I didn't know how to hold my own Emotion when it came down to setting boundaries because I think I had this very superficial Understanding of I say no don't do this or this makes me uncomfortable or however. I'm setting the boundary and
not understanding and the slightest of how to deal with the grief maybe that would come from more space with someone or if the boundary is violated, how to deal with that. It was just, I feel like this tip of the iceberg and there's so much more to boundaries themselves and I'm so grateful for my psychedelic journeys helping me.
understand that relationship with self, but also how to hold, hold myself truly, not just know myself, but how to hold myself when those uncomfortable things show up. So that way I can continue to still do the healthy, good things for myself, not just talk about it or do step A, but walk it all the way through and be okay. Maybe I'm upset, maybe there's some pain, but I'm okay no matter what.
Julian (36:12.951)
Yeah. Understanding things conceptually is usually the first step and then embodying it and knowing how to apply these things and to recognize the feeling of an emotion or the feeling of the threat associated with setting a boundary and being very aware of those patterns and then choosing something new can be very, very challenging. And it's very difficult to overcome that. And a psychedelic experience can be very good at showing you what that looks like and showing you what that feels like.
You know, if we're talking about comforting our own emotions, but we don't like our emotions or we're scared of our emotions or we see them as threatening and we've never once cared for ourselves, how do you learn how to do that? It's like learning how to see a color that you're blind to. You don't even know where it's at. But, you know, for me, with a psychedelic experience, that was the first time I ever knew what it was like to be held by a mother, for instance.
how to really care for myself unconditionally and love myself and accept myself. Don't get me wrong. It showed me that and I experienced it and it was a pivotable transformational moment for me. But then I have to come back to this space and I have to figure out how do I get back to that space on my own? How do I do all of those things on my own? How do I prioritize my health? How do I set boundaries? So on and so forth. And that is
very challenging, but that is what we have to do. The psychedelic experience will show you what it looks like. They'll give you a taste of the feeling, and then we come back and then we have to do all the things to get back to that space.
Savannah Rose (37:44.366)
Mm-hmm.
Savannah Rose (37:49.262)
100 % that's beautifully said because yeah, I see that so often and that's one of my favorite things to help people with because I mean I title myself I mean I've had training and whatnot but I title myself as a psychedelic integration coach like I will be there for people and facilitate the experience but I always say like
That is like the, the ingredients, we still have a lot of cooking to do. And so that's, it's so great to hear you say that where it's just, it is this.
kind of gives you like a new baseline of like, you can feel joy or you don't have to feel panic all the time or you can feel this. And then it's like, okay, well, what do I need to change in my lifestyle to make that the new normal rather than just kind of this anomaly experience? So I think that's really well said. And I think just, again, just shine so much light on the...
I guess I would say just how vital it is to be intentional about the phases, like the beginning, middle, and not really the end, but just the integration. think it's such a huge process for sure, but a worthwhile one.
Julian (39:03.645)
a process and a practice. It's a constant practice to engage with the space and to live life intentionally and taking accountability and responsibility for our own experience.
Savannah Rose (39:14.638)
Absolutely. I love that. Can you share more on your perspective of the taking accountability piece? Because I think that's something that isn't talked about enough.
Julian (39:26.443)
Mm hmm. Yeah, very frequently we say, well, I feel this way, so it's justified or this thing happened to me and I'm a victim of it or this is just the way that I am. I am just this way. And all of these aspects of who we are, the way that we see the world, the emotions that we feel, the reason why we feel them usually being based off of some belief of ourselves. So I get angry about something that happened.
Well, it's not the thing that made me angry. Why did it make me angry? And when we look at it, we find that it's a belief about myself. This person doesn't respect me. This person doesn't value me. This person tried to hurt me. In other words, I'm unworthy. I'm unlovable. I'm undeserving of respect and love. I carry the belief around. So we say like, you know, I got triggered is the common phrase. Well, the trigger is a very small mechanism of the larger tool, which is the gun, which is a tool for destruction.
And there's so many mechanisms in it, including the combustible ammunition. And about of all those mechanisms, the trigger is just this tiny little piece. So if somebody pulls that trigger, who's the one carrying around the combustible ammunition? Well, it's me. It's inside of me. It's not, has nothing to do with all the things that are happening out there. So when I start to take accountability and responsibility for it, what I'm saying is, is I'm not a victim. I'm not, I'm,
The things that happened to me were not my fault, of course, and they shouldn't have happened to me, but they did. And there's nothing I can do about that. But what I can do is I can choose how I'm going to relate with the world around me now so that way I don't pass on that exact same pattern that I was handed. That's what I'm talking about when I'm taking responsibility and accountability for ourselves is to say, okay, I got angry, yes.
I got angry because this person did X, Y, and Z. No, I got angry because I believed they did X, and Z because of something that was inherent about myself. And so then that gives me a lot of power, a lot of potential to change my relationship with myself, to comfort and soothe that anger, pain, whatever it was that I was feeling. And so rather than always having somebody else be responsible for my emotional state in my experience,
Savannah Rose (41:33.198)
Yeah.
Julian (41:52.7)
I'm the one who's responsible for it. I have control and power over it. So this is what I'm talking about when I'm saying, you know, we take responsibility for what we're feeling, what we're perceiving, and what we believe about ourselves and others around us. This is how we go from being a victim where everything's happening to us, to being able to engage with it and participate with it and exert some amount of autonomy and agency over these situations. In other words, we become responsible for ourselves and we have the ability to respond differently.
Savannah Rose (42:22.098)
beautifully said. You're such a great speaker on this and I feel like you're such, and I don't know if I've said this since before, such a beautiful advocate for this work. So again, I just, I'm really grateful to connect with you today. I'm curious as well, gosh, there was something I wanted to ask you. Where did it go?
Savannah Rose (42:47.712)
It left my brain just like that. It was like, if it needs to happen, it'll come back to me. but I feel like when I'm listening to you, you're sparking so much in me and I'm like, I want to ask him about this and that. it's such a rich conversation. So I'm very grateful. but shifting gears just a little bit when people would like to, or if people who are listening today would like to work with you, connect more with you, learn more about your practice or anything of the sort, how can they get in touch with you? How can they track you down?
Julian (42:51.902)
Yeah, yeah, it's okay.
Savannah Rose (43:17.687)
on.
Julian (43:18.569)
Yeah, yeah. Well, really quick, you know, what's funny is when you give me these compliments and you say you're a wonderful speaker and so on and so forth, you know, ideally you would think that that would make somebody very happy. And that is a part of being human is to experience joy. But there's a part of me that is very active and very critical and very harsh and as a perfectionist and is never good enough. And so even when I hear those compliments, there's this voice that's inside of me.
that is so powerful and so dominant that's critiquing myself all along the way and I don't even hear the compliment. And that's of course, I learned that voice from so many people, whether it was my dad or it was my mom's husbands or boyfriends or my teachers and so on. So what's really interesting is when we take responsibility for that and I recognize it and identify it and I say, hi dad.
I see you're trying to help, but I don't need that right now. can set boundaries even with myself and how I take care of myself. This really actually does allow me to feel some of the joy and the gratitude for things like compliments like that to where for most of my life I could hear it, but I didn't believe it. didn't internalize it. I didn't actually experience it.
I wanted to say thank you for all the kind words and while I might miss those or might have missed those in the past, I actually can receive those now. So thank you very much. In terms of how people can find me, website is the best and easiest way to get through to me, psychedelic-integration.net. We have articles, there's a mailing list where you can subscribe and be kept up to date.
Savannah Rose (44:41.592)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. You're welcome. Yeah.
Julian (45:02.409)
You can schedule a free consultation if you want to chat and you want to work through something on your own or with us So there's lots of avenues for help through there or you can follow us on Instagram if you want to keep up with some of the things there's lots of clips from these conversations and Articles and things like that that I post on there as well
Savannah Rose (45:21.102)
Beautiful, thank you. And just as you were explaining the part of yourself, it reminded me not only of what I was gonna ask you, which is about your perspective on embodiment, but also it sounds like you're very in tune with the IFS, like the Internal Family System philosophy. Have you read that book? It's called No Bad Parts.
Julian (45:41.789)
Yeah, yeah, I studied a lot of Richard Schwartz's philosophies. It was deeply impactful and influential on how I developed my own therapy space. I took a lot of moving parts from that therapy and applied it here as well.
Savannah Rose (45:58.242)
Yeah, I could hear that in your language, I think that's something that's very empowering for a lot of people is kind of removing their identity from certain beliefs or thoughts that they might have and recognizing like, this is not who you are. Maybe it's a part or maybe it's a piece of your experience, but it doesn't belong to you. And you can also put it down or check it. Like you are the authority over that part as well.
Julian (46:26.342)
Yeah, yeah, or you can comfort it and soothe it and see why it's here right now and what purpose or what wisdom is here and how this part of us helps us in lots of ways. And then of course, we can choose to meet those needs in other ways.
Savannah Rose (46:36.43)
Okay.
Savannah Rose (46:41.11)
Mm-hmm, absolutely. And gosh, this guy is so active today. It was just like, he doesn't want to just sit still. Like, if you want to sit still, that's great. you just, you miss him.
Julian (46:46.341)
He's so funny with his little paws stretched out.
Julian (46:54.503)
Like, I want to be in front of the camera. Everybody needs to know that I do this too.
Savannah Rose (46:59.094)
He does, he really does. He's my- I say he's my little soul kitty because he's so in tune with me emotionally. Like if I'm stressed, he'll throw up. If I'm like gone, he like needs- like this is why he is the way he is today because I was gone this weekend. my goodness.
Julian (47:14.427)
Yeah. And then that gives you some responsibility in how you take care of yourself because if you're so deeply in tuned and how your state affects him, then you got to take care of yourself.
Savannah Rose (47:22.318)
100%.
Savannah Rose (47:27.266)
Yep, and that's what it always boils down to, Yes, well I think just the final question I have for you is circling back to that thought of just your perspective on embodiment and what that means to you.
Julian (47:30.523)
Yeah.
Julian (47:43.58)
Yeah, there's a few things that come to mind. So first thing is, is all that trauma gets stored in the body. We have these emotions, each, each emotion that we have has a physiological sensation or pathway that's activated with it. So you get angry, your heartbeat goes up, your breathing gets more shallow or rigid, your muscles get tense, your body temperature goes up, so on and so forth. Each emotion has all of those physiological connections.
So when we suppress that emotion, all of those feelings in the body stay there. They don't process. So a big part of this practice is really connecting back with the body, which as I saying earlier, the biggest hallmark of trauma is that we become disconnected. We disconnect from those feelings. It's an adaptation to early pain when we don't have the ability to navigate it. We can't set boundaries. We can't go away physically, so we go away mentally.
and we disconnect from our body. And so a big part of it is reconnecting with all of those feelings, all of those emotions that were at one point so threatening that we couldn't be present with them. And so the embodiment is to come back into all of these feelings and to see what kind of state is happening inside of us and to enact some amount of agency in terms of that internal state. So if I have all these big turbulent emotions, I want to be very present with them.
I want to constantly spend time with them and pay attention to them and figure out what I can do to comfort and soothe and process and express these emotions in healthy, constructive ways. So the embodiment is all about coming back to the body and it's learning how to take all these philosophies, all these concepts that we know way up here and actually apply them physically to a physical practice of how we connect to ourselves.
Savannah Rose (49:37.88)
beautifully said and I hope you received that compliment and thank you for sharing your own vulnerability and your own human experience with us today, Julie. And it was so...
refreshing and so moving and inspiring and just gratitude is just what I'm sitting with right now because I'm just so grateful that I got to have this conversation with you. gave me so much to think about myself and reconnect with as well as I'm just so happy that you could share your message and all the wisdom and again just yourself with our audience today. It was really special.
Julian (50:15.622)
Thank you, Savannah. I'm very happy to be here. Very happy to share all of this. And thank you for having this platform. And thank you for also doing this work. 15 years ago, this information was so much harder to come across. It was so much more difficult to find people who were in this space and to find people that we could connect with who were going through it, working on it on their own, and of course, putting this information out there to help other people. So thank you for having this platform. And thank you for putting all of this effort into sharing these informations.
I can't do it without you. So thank you. It's very nice to be here with you and I really appreciate what you're doing as well.
Savannah Rose (50:50.478)
It's been my pleasure, truly. And thank you everyone who's tuned in today, whether you're listening, watching, however you're checking us out. We just really hope that this message resonated with you in whatever way it needed to. And with that, we'll wrap up for today. But again, Julian, thank you so much. I truly appreciate you and everyone else. Bye for now.
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